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I have a betting pattern in which I gradually increase my pass line odds. If I get to the point where the pressure exceeds the maximum allowable bet, I just increase the pass bet so that it is legal. I've never had a problem implementing it previously. But playing at EC, the box lady noticed me adding to my pass bet and waved me off, saying I couldn't do that. As I understand it, a put bet would be to their advantage. Can anyone think of a sane reason not to allow it?
Can anyone think of a sane reason not to allow it?
No, but given that you were playing at the El Cortez, you probably had a green break in dealer who was essentially clueless.
There is no reason for a casino not to book that bet, other than ignorance.
No, but given that you were playing at the El Cortez, you probably had a green break in dealer who was essentially clueless.
That makes sense, but it didn't actually come from the dealer. It was the box lady, who I would figure to have a bit more experience. The dealer never looked twice at my press.
In spite of offers for free junkets and rooms, I have never returned to AC, and likely never will.
But, they did get me thinking about the play, and I realized that upping the pass-line is just not a good play, unless you can put down more than 5x odds on the increased amount. If you can't do that, you are better off just adding a place bet on the point if you want more action. You will get paid better, and you have the ability to take ALL of the bet back if you want. When you up the pass line, you can only take back the odds. The amount you are only going to get paid 1-1 must stay in action.
Calculate your payoffs on what you are doing with the PL add-on, and then calculate if you made place bets instead, and I think you will find the amounts are the same, or better, with the place bet.
Where it used to make sense to up the pass line was on a table where they were playing all 3x odds. On a $10 PL bet, point of 6, you could put down 30 in odds. But if you asked the dealer, many times if your PL bet was 15, they would treat it like it was 25, and allow you to put down 75 in odds, effectively giving you 5x odds. So every time I had a point of 6 or 8, and a $10 PL bet, I would up the PL to $15 and then put down $75 in odds. This was a better play, because the extra $5 PL bet allowed me to put down an additional $40 in odds, or 8x. 3-4-5x tables pretty much eliminated the need for this play.
I thought I was going to jail when I upped my pass line bet in AC 14 years ago. The box there was a total ass about it. I said 'sorry, I do this all the time in Vegas, and since it is an advantage to the casino, I am surprised you don't allow it.' The brilliant reply I got? 'You ain't in Vegas.'
In spite of offers for free junkets and rooms, I have never returned to AC, and likely never will.
LOL what a ploppy idiot.
But, they did get me thinking about the play, and I realized that upping the pass-line is just not a good play, unless you can put down more than 5x odds on the increased amount. If you can't do that, you are better off just adding a place bet on the point if you want more action. You will get paid better, and you have the ability to take ALL of the bet back if you want.
BINGO!!!! If you only read one thing on this thread, read the above quote.
But, they did get me thinking about the play, and I realized that upping the pass-line is just not a good play, unless you can put down more than 5x odds on the increased amount.
Yep. They have 10x odds at EC, so when I get past the limit, I drop $1 on the line and $10 on odds. The house still has an advantage overall, so I'm not sure why the objection.
Nice to hear that my experience is not unique anyway. 'You ain't in Vegas' makes me smile, just a little bit.
I was playing at Primm a few months ago, they are 3-4-5x odds and $2 minimum in the off hours. I was playing the minimum, and taking max odds. I get confused by 3-4-5x odds, so when the come went to 6 or 8, I said '$15 odds' and the dealer would press my flat bet up to $3, and give me the $15 odds that I asked for. I didn't notice at first because the dealer took the extra dollar from my place bet that was taken down. So the dealer was essentially doing what you were reprimanded for doing. I'm mystified as to why they would not allow you to press your bet up.
I'm mystified as to why they would not allow you to press your bet up.
Here's the thing. If you did not increase your odds bet, then would you have pressed your pass line bet? No! Taking it to the extreme, if I wanted to, I could put the minimum on the pass line and then when the point came out, I could just increase my pass line bet to whatever I want so that I can get 1000x odds against my original bet amount. It still works out for the casino but it violates the intent of the rules.This thread reminded me of something that happened to me in January. I wanted to ask the resident gamblers about it, because the whole experience left me confused.
I have a betting pattern in which I gradually increase my pass line odds. If I get to the point where the pressure exceeds the maximum allowable bet, I just increase the pass bet so that it is legal. I've never had a problem implementing it previously. But playing at EC, the box lady noticed me adding to my pass bet and waved me off, saying I couldn't do that. As I understand it, a put bet would be to their advantage. Can anyone think of a sane reason not to allow it?
So if I read this right you just wanted to add $1 to your pass line bet after the point was established?
No reason not to allow that. I think it was covered that this was allowed on the first day of dealer school. If not the first then the second.
Was she hot? Maybe she just dated the floorman to get the job??
Craps bets and house edges are the same from casino to casino. This makes it seem like there’s no separation between games.
But some casinos offer better craps games than others and give you a stronger chance to win.
How is this the case?
I’ll answer this question first by discussing tips that you can use to find the best craps games. Then we’ll discuss what land based casinos and online gaming providers have the best craps action.
Tips for Finding the Top Craps Games
1. Look for the Highest Craps Odds
The best craps bets are as follows:
- Don’t pass line = 1.36% house edge
- Don’t come = 1.41%
- Pass line = 1.41%
- Come = 1.41%
These are the main four bets that you want to stick with because they offer the lowest house edges.
But you can also improve your chances of winning by making odds bets. Here’s a short explanation of craps odds in case you’re unfamiliar with them:
- You can put odds behind any of the four bets we mentioned above, or riskier prop bets.
- Odds pay at 1:1, making them a rare even money bet with the casino.
- Odds range from 1x to 100x your wager.
Now let’s look at an example of how odds bets work in action:
- You make a don’t pass line bet worth $10 (1:1 payout).
- You take 2x odds, which means you bet an extra $20 ($30 total).
- Your pass line bet wins, and you receive $30 in profit.
The key is to wager as high of odds as possible, or as much as your bankroll allows. The reason why is because you’re getting even money on a higher percentage of your money.
In the example above, your don’t pass line bet is still subjected to a 1.36% house edge. But the other $20 has no house advantage, making for an overall casino edge of 0.46%.
The table below shows how higher odds reduce the house edge:
| Odds | Pass Line | Don’t Pass Line |
| 0x | 1.41% house edge | 1.36% house edge |
| 1x | 0.848% | 0.682% |
| 2x | 0.606% | 0.455% |
| Full Double Odds | 0.572% | 0.431% |
| 3x | 0.471% | 0.341% |
| 3x 4x 5x | 0.374% | 0.273% |
| 5x | 0.326% | 0.227% |
| 10x | 0.184% | 0.124% |
| 20x | 0.099% | 0.065% |
| 100x | 0.021% | 0.014% |
2. Look for the Best Craps Comps
Odds are the only way that you’re going to reduce the craps house edge. But another way to boost your chances of winning includes searching for the best comps.
This is easiest to do at internet casinos because they offer VIP pages that show the rewards rate for each game.
Craps offers much less than games like slots and scratch cards due to its low house edge. But you can find better reward rates at certain internet casinos with enough research.
Brick and mortar casinos are tougher because they don’t post comp rates anywhere.
Instead, you either need to learn through research, experience, and/or the casinos’ reputation. El Cortez exemplifies the latter because they’re known for comping craps players well.
3. Read Terms on Online Craps Bonuses
Many online casinos offer welcome bonuses to table game players. And they often come with gaudy offers like $500 or $1,000.
While it’s nice to think about how much money you can earn, you also need to read the terms and conditions behind a bonus.
Here are key points to consider:
- Does the casino offer welcome bonuses to craps players?
- What are the wagering requirements?
- How do these requirements compare to other casinos?
- What’s the maximum number of days given to earn your bonus?
4. Forget Anything Dealing with Dice Control
I’ve seen some advice on the internet about choosing casinos based on their tolerance towards dice control (a.k.a. controlled shooting).
If you’re unfamiliar with dice control, this concept relates to manipulating results by throwing the same way every time.
This normally involves holding the dice so the 3s form a V shape and practicing your tosses with a homemade craps table. The end goal is to practice enough that you can occasionally avoid throwing 7s.
This sounds good in theory. But then again, it seems impossible to avoid throwing 7s with any consistency when you must bounce dice off the rubberized back wall.
Long story short, don’t let any thoughts of a casino’s tolerance to dice control influence where to play. Unlike card counting or roulette wheel bias, controlled shooting hasn’t been proven to work.
Best Craps Casinos
1. Cromwell
The Cromwell Hotel & Casino is king of the craps scene right now. They offer 100x odds along with $5 minimum bets.
The fact that Cromwell has 100x odds is pretty amazing when considering that most Vegas casinos offer between 2x and 10x odds.
You can take 100x odds behind a pass line or don’t pass line bet for $500. Most of us don’t have $500 for a single bet, but high rollers will certainly benefit from this high even money wager.
The catch is that you won’t find $5 craps tables open very often. This means you’ll have to head to the $10 tables, where 100x odds would cost $1,000.
If you’re unwilling to pony up $500 to $1,000, you can always take lower odds. This is still a good proposition when considering the low minimum bets.
Another nice aspect to playing at the Cromwell is that it’s located in the center of the Vegas Strip. This lets you visit a number of other nearby major resorts, or just enjoy your stay at this luxury hotel and casino.
The Cromwell is a newer casino resort, opening in 2014. My only fear is that they won’t have 100x odds and low stakes forever.
That said, take advantage of this game while you still can.
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2. Main Street Station
Located on N. Main Street in downtown Vegas, Main Street Station currently has the second best craps game in Vegas.
They have 20x odds along with $5 minimum bets. This allows you to place a $5 wager on pass line or don’t pass line, then get 20x odds for another $100.
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Most players won’t call this bet cheap. But it’s another great option if you want to put a large amount on an even money wager.
Aside from a good craps game, Main Street features a brewery, summer concerts, and a sportsbook. This casino is also close to other downtown venues that feature low stakes baccarat, blackjack, and roulette.
3. El Cortez
Found on Vegas’ Fremont Street, El Cortez is often hailed as the best destination for low rollers. The same holds true for their craps action because they offer $5 minimum bets and 10x odds.
This lets you place a $5 pass line or don’t pass line wager, then spend another $50 taking the 10x odds.
The one catch is that El Cortez only has two craps tables. They don’t even offer any other tables in case you can’t get into these games.
But El Cortez is still worth a visit if you’re in downtown Vegas. This is especially the case if you also enjoy low stakes table games.
Their blackjack tables offer $5 minimum wagers and a 0.30% house edge. You can also look forward to roulette tables with $1 $3 minimum bets.
4. Joker’s Wild Casino
Joker’s Wild is the ultimate low roller craps spot because they have $1 minimum bets along with 10x odds.
They’re one of only three Vegas casinos that have $1 minimum bets. And they’re the only one to feature $10 odds in this game.
This allows you to bet $1 on a pass line or don’t pass line wager, then back it with another $10 in odds. Joker’s Wild is definitely the best spot when you’re looking for good odds on a budget.
But there are two major downsides to playing here:
- Joker’s Wild only has one $1 craps table.
- They’re located out in Henderson, Nevada.
These two drawbacks tie in together because Henderson is far away from both the Vegas Strip and downtown. If you strike out when looking for the $1 game at Joker’s Wild, then you’re miles away from any other major casino.
Nevertheless, this is the cheapest place to get 10x odds in the Vegas area.
5. Golden Gate
Golden Gate is another casino in Vegas that offers 10x odds and $5 minimum bets. This puts it in line with El Cortez regarding both categories.
Unfortunately, Golden Gate is also like El Cortez in that they only offer two $5 tables.
But as long as you like downtown Vegas, then there’s plenty to experience in case you can’t get into these craps games.
Golden Gate doesn’t offer many attractions beyond its low stakes craps tables. This is why many visitors go the nearby Fremont Experience, which is filled with things to do.
6. Betsoft Craps
Betsoft is the first online gaming provider to make this list.
Their craps game features 3x odds on pass line, don’t pass line, come, and don’t come bets. This is generous for an online provider when considering that most internet casinos don’t offer any odds.
Why many internet software providers don’t feature odds is beyond me. But the point is that Betsoft craps are as good as it gets online.
Another thing to appreciate about Betsoft’s game is that it offers $1 minimum bets.
This means that you can make a pass line bet with 3x odds for only $4. and the great part is that your overall wagers will only have a 0.34% house edge.
The Betsoft craps interface is very simple with few frills. But it’s also a very clean interface and offers a nice way for beginners to get introduced to online craps.
7. Playtech Craps
Playtech is the other online gaming provider on this list because they too have craps with 3x odds. You can also take advantage of $1 minimum bets at Playtech casinos.
Their interface looks nice because of the rich colors and tilted table.
My only complaint is that the betting options are more spaced out than Betsoft’s version. And this means that the different bets run across the entire table.
Nevertheless, Playtech still ranks among the world’s best craps games due to the interface graphics and 3x odds.
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Conclusion
The main factor that separates craps games from each other is the amount of odds.
Cromwell is the only casino offering 100x odds right now, while Main Street Station ranks second with 20x odds.
These are definitely worthwhile bets for serious gamblers because they give you such a great chance to win money.
Of course, not everybody can afford to bet hundreds of dollars on the highest odds. This is why you also have to factor stakes into the equation too.
In this case, Joker’s Wild is the best low roller option because they have $1 minimum bets and 10x odds. Betsoft and Playtech’s online craps games are also decent with $1 minimums and 3x odds.
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Another major factor to consider is comps and loyalty programs. You should definitely research these to find yourself the best deal possible.